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  #41  
Old November 8th, 2011, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Interesting.

Thanks.

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  #42  
Old November 8th, 2011, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Ha.. Learn something new every day. Thanks!
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  #43  
Old November 8th, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

You hear the copyleft and digirati talk all the time about musicians selling "merchandise" to support themselves. What everybody is failing to understand is that the most important piece of merchandise a musician/act/band has to sell is packaged versions of their recorded music - ie: "ALBUMS". This is every bit as true today as it was in the 1960s and so-called "new reality" of the internet does NOT change that.
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  #44  
Old November 8th, 2011, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

They should sell t-shirts with the download link printed on the back, make money plus get some free advertising, others who see the shirt can go download the album as well from it.


(that was just a dumb idea, but you never know, it could work)
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  #45  
Old November 8th, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Originally Posted by redbone View Post
Reads more like an age thing.

Get offa my lawn with those damn new fangled computers!


How OLD are you anyway/

Well, I'm 27 and I was positively giddy about being able to read the 12"x12" backstory/liner notes in the copy of "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" I just bought in the bathroom all week.

Concurrently, I'm also perturbed that Nonesuch didn't include a digital download with the record that I can listen to while riding the bus to work.

I'm a big enough music fan to appreciate the tangible, lasting quality of a record, but young enough to desire it also be mobile.

I haven't bought a CD in 6-7 years, but I probably buy 1-2 albums a month.
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  #46  
Old November 8th, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Originally Posted by majestikc View Post
They should sell t-shirts with the download link printed on the back, make money plus get some free advertising, others who see the shirt can go download the album as well from it.
If selling T-shirts would be a viable source of primary income for the music biz everyone including the major labels would have been in the T-shirt business already in the 1960s. Is is mindblowing that after 13 years since Napster the T-shirt argument is still being made, even in threads like this. "Dumb idea"? More like disproven and discredited idea.
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  #47  
Old November 8th, 2011, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Originally Posted by redbone View Post
Reads more like an age thing.

Get offa my lawn with those damn new fangled computers!


How OLD are you anyway/

Age thing or not, there is no denying that computer, phone, and media hardware moves fast. They either go obsolete, break, or have their online servers go offline in under 10 years. Usually much sooner.

You can be as young as you like. It still doesn't change the fact that every file on your current iPod will be unusable or just plain destroyed by 2025. By then there won't be a PC on the planet that uses a cord even remotely similar to USB, and there won't be a single operating system that knows a 2011 iPod from a hole in the ground.

Meanwhile my physical music will still play just fine.

I don't like the idea of a music collection that goes away after a short time. Maybe the young kids don't mind that.
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  #48  
Old November 8th, 2011, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Originally Posted by Cheebs View Post
You can be as young as you like. It still doesn't change the fact that every file on your current iPod will be unusable or just plain destroyed by 2025. ....
Meanwhile my physical music will still play just fine.
I don't like the idea of a music collection that goes away after a short time. Maybe the young kids don't mind that.
Every file on my iPod also exists on my MacBook Pro, Time Machine HD and 2 other Hard Drives I keep as clones of my MacBook Pro. These files are kept safe with very little effort. Your physical music can be instantly wiped out in a catastrophe. When a new file format comes along I can easily batch convert the files to the new format. I can access any of my music files at anytime and anywhere, you can't do that with physical media.
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  #49  
Old November 8th, 2011, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

Russel's early prototyping is a far cry from a "prototype CD". That's like saying that Alexander Graham Bell had a working prototype of a cell phone.

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Maybe it actually reduces piracy and increases quality, who knows, only time will tell, if it's adopted as the new "standard" by the proles it might just do that, not to mention how helpful it will be to indie bands (independent bands, not the shit music style bands).
As a person who has spent more time that I like to think about arguing with freetards in the GS piracy forum I can tell you that "virtual" music distribution has already had a profound effect in promoting piracy. The whole "sharing is caring" meme and the idea that copying and distribution "isn't stealing" are based on the idea that since it's only bits - ones and zeros - it has no intrinsic value.

As far as being helpful to indie bands is concerned, IMO it will be anything but. It will make it even more difficult for serious acts to have their material differentiated from the dross emitted from multitudes of bedroom musicians that inundates the internet. At least with hard copy you know an act is serious enough to put some money into their product. Not so with "bits".
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  #50  
Old November 9th, 2011, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

I'm all for quality and bands getting paid (I happen to be in 3 myself), it can't just be so plainly CD's ONLY, like other's have said, if we stick to this cd "business" then a better solution wont be necessary and the old status-quo remains.

Seems to be doing allright for kindle:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/19/k...mazon-pulp-st/
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  #51  
Old November 9th, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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...The whole "sharing is caring" meme and the idea that copying and distribution "isn't stealing" are based on the idea that since it's only bits - ones and zeros - it has no intrinsic value.
Actually, bits can have "intrinsic value" but the price will be practically zero because in a competitive market the price of anything tends towards the extra cost of producing one more unit. While individual psychology, morals and ethics may drive us to personally relate "intrinsic value" to "price", from an economics perspective (i.e. looking at the group behavior of a very large number of individuals) I am not sure if there is a link.

In practice, copyrights and other legal and technological intellectual property protection try to make the market for digitized products less competitive and the digital products less abundant and, therefore, influence prices to stay above zero.

What the music business has probably concluded is that the cost of using a hardware distribution technology (CD) doesn't do enough in keeping the price in some region above zero that works for them. A bunch of finance and accountant dorks have been counting beans and doing projections and, as we all know, they often get things wrong. But let's see.

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  #52  
Old November 9th, 2011, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Every file on my iPod also exists on my MacBook Pro, Time Machine HD and 2 other Hard Drives I keep as clones of my MacBook Pro.
All of which will also not work in the year 2025.

Virtual music is a time bomb. If you do nothing, it will self destruct. As hardware gets put out to pasture or dies, you have to actively move the whole shebang to another platform. Each new platform is a new time bomb.

The cloud is a separate dilemma. Yeah, you don't have to worry about moving your files to new hardware in that case. But if you ever stop payment to the cloud keepers, or if the could keepers themselves go out of business, everything is gone.

My point is that virtual music requires activity on the part of the owner to remain in existence. Often that activity involves monthly subscriptions or hardware purchases.

Physical music continues to "be" when left on it's own. A physical force is needed to destroy it.

One requires activity to keep existing. The other requires activity to destroy.
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  #53  
Old November 9th, 2011, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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Originally Posted by Cheebs View Post
You can be as young as you like. It still doesn't change the fact that every file on your current iPod will be unusable or just plain destroyed by 2025. By then there won't be a PC on the planet that uses a cord even remotely similar to USB, and there won't be a single operating system that knows a 2011 iPod from a hole in the ground.
Which my argument against USB "Stick Albums". We need a new optical media format where no electricity in any form passes through the carrier, preferably one with no moving parts. Apparently this technology has existed since the 1970s and can store several GB on a 2-inch by 2-inch by 2-inch cube of optical grade Polymethyl Acrylic (Lucite). Why this has not been made commercially available ten much less thirty years ago is a complete mystery.....
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  #54  
Old November 9th, 2011, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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In practice, copyrights and other legal and technological intellectual property protection
There is only one legal protection, copyright.
Quote:
try to make the market for digitized products less competitive
No, they don't. Quite the opposite. If I copyright my work, you have to compete with it, you can't merely plagiarize it.
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and the digital products less abundant and, therefore, influence prices to stay above zero.

What the music business has probably concluded is that the cost of using a hardware distribution technology (CD) doesn't do enough in keeping the price in some region above zero that works for them. A bunch of finance and accountant dorks have been counting beans and doing projections and, as we all know, they often get things wrong. But let's see.
The music biz, like any other, responds to market forces, i.e. demand. It's cheaper and faster to buy files than physical media and that's what you're seeing. Same for print media and movies.

So, making fewer CDs makes sense, "abolishing" CDs outright by 2012 doesn't, which is why it won't happen.
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  #55  
Old November 9th, 2011, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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If you do nothing, it will self destruct.
That's a problem with any medium be tape, vinyl or WHY. The difference between formats is the length of time before self destruction. Being forced to actively maintain your archive is a good thing IMHO.

This is conjecture, but I would think that future computers would include compatibility with current formats because they're ubiquitous. If nothing else, it would be a good selling point!
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  #56  
Old November 9th, 2011, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

There are a couple very simple reasons that CDs are going away. Optical players are no longer included with new computers and stores that sell CDs are dying fast.

The idea that "consumer desire" dictates technology is probably Wall Street's biggest lie. Next watch "Apps" replace music files. The barn door of "file sharing" is being slammed shut with guess who grabbing a huge percentage of any income right off the top.

People really need to study tech industry history from the early 20th century. I can assure you Bill Gates and Steve Jobs knew it inside out and backwards. All of this has been utterly predictable for a decade.
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  #57  
Old November 9th, 2011, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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wait...

what rock have you been hiding under?
The rock of denialÖ

I say good reddens! I think the CD sucked all along. Easily destroyed, a pain to handle, bad sound quality, skipped like a rock on water, stupid cases that break and the list goes on. If I need something to hold Iíll hold the device paying it.

High quality digital files are already out there along with digital books that replace artwork and info. The delivery systems are evolving and will continue to. Just like Bob said, they hardly put optical drives in systems anymore. Network connections are more important because they can move more than one delivery format and can evolve without becoming obsolete.

CDís suck!

Long live the music!!!
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Old November 9th, 2011, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

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This is conjecture, but I would think that future computers would include compatibility with current formats because they're ubiquitous. If nothing else, it would be a good selling point!
No.

Future computers will not maintain compatibility. By not maintaining compatibility they are able to sell you more products that you would otherwise not need.

The entire computer industry, like Bob O. says, is based on planned obsolescence. This is not going to change because behaving otherwise would be tantamount to the industry slitting its own throat.

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There are a couple very simple reasons that CDs are going away. Optical players are no longer included with new computers and stores that sell CDs are dying fast.
Now that's an odd statement - I have a copy of Maximum Pc and a copy of the Tiger Direct catalog sitting in front of me and nearly all the new computers advertised in them (all that are not "tablet computers" or "lite" laptops) appear to have optical drives. Many give a choice of CD/DVD or Blu-ray.

Quote:
The idea that "consumer desire" dictates technology is probably Wall Street's biggest lie. Next watch "Apps" replace music files. The barn door of "file sharing" is being slammed shut with guess who grabbing a huge percentage of any income right off the top.
Yes and no. The flip side of that is that industry can't dictate what the public wants in terms of forcing new technologies. Industry can kill off an old technology but that's not the same as forcing a new one. SACDs, quad stereos, etc, etc. There has to be a demand for a product.

That's one of the reasons that a technical approach to the piracy problem won't work. (The other one being that you can't protect audio from an analog rip.) People won't buy a new technology unless they perceive some benefit to them - not to the industry - when there is an existing technology that does the job for them. And like it or not that technology for music is MP3.

The only practical solution to the file sharing problem is law enforcement. Which we're finally starting to see.

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I say good reddens! I think the CD sucked all along. Easily destroyed, a pain to handle, bad sound quality, skipped like a rock on water, stupid cases that break and the list goes on. If I need something to hold I’ll hold the device paying it.
So you prefer an ephemeral format where your whole music library goes *POOF* when your hard drive crashes or you lose your internet connection? Not to mention becoming obsolete when the industry compatibility churn makes your old technology "obsolete" so they can sell you a new system?

Pull the other one, it has got bells on!

Quote:
High quality digital files are already out there along with digital books that replace artwork and info. The delivery systems are evolving and will continue to. Just like Bob said, they hardly put optical drives in systems anymore. Network connections are more important because they can move more than one delivery format and can evolve without becoming obsolete.
Is I just pointed out, it appears that most of the computer industry doesn't agree with you on the availability of optical drives.

OH! I think I understand. All you guys are APPLE USERS and Apple has been eliminating optical drives from many of their machines (a really dumb move IMO). Well, if you'd just climb out of your Apple-centric hole for a minute you'd see that the rest of the computer industry does not appear to be following Apple on this one.

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CD’s suck!

Long live the music!!!
The music will live a lot longer if its recorded on a nice, durable physical medium.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

Still holding off getting into this because I can't see how I can really cover what I think without a big essay.

But quickie stuff...

There are all kinds of big potential problems with assorted things that kind of all loosely fall under a broad category of being in a little too much of an enthusiastic hurry to charge into what seems like the newer more better latest greatest new technology whatzit because, after all, that MUST be better... and unforeseen consequences.

"Cloud computing" and "e-books" fall squarely into this realm, and this shit really worries me. People are not thinking things through.

Offhand... I remember some conversation a while back with somebody talking about, what was it, an insurance agent I think, they had all their business records in some sort of "cloud" sort of arrangement, and then one day, this became a big, big, big problem. As I recall, it was something like, guy in question decided he didn't like the arrangement and costs and service and wanted to get out of that, and found that, basically, he had two options. Continue with the service in question paying the monthly fees, and liking it, or ceasing to have any of his business records. Gone. Inaccessable.

Oops.

I have books in my collection that are 40, 50, 60, 70 years old.

Good luck, future you, with your 40-70 year old "e-books".


JLE
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Old November 10th, 2011, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: CD's abolished by Majors by 2012!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tannoy View Post
Would be nice if higher quality formats would come into play, but I doubt that it will happen. The Hifi enthusiasts care, guys like us care, but most ppl do not - so why should the industry change the format ?


Marco
That's the beauty of killing the CD. Ever play a 48k/24bit file with iTunes? Try it with a CD player. Mechanical playback is standardized. Software playback won't need to be. Sure, you'll need to replace some converters at some point, but those will be able to play all the previous sample rates. So you can have a library of different file types, and it's not a problem.

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What about the car cd player? I know newer ones have an aux jack or dock but I think car players trigger a lot of cd sales.
Your next car will have an iPod connector.

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Higher bitrate formats have been available for download by the public for some time...and to the best of my knowledge the public haven't been exactly falling over themselves in a rush to avail themselves of them.
MP3s dominate because of file sizes and storage limitations. As those open up, so too will playback quality. There is always a push and pull between convenience and quality. Convenience wins. Ultimately, quality will catch up, it just takes a minute.

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Originally Posted by Eagan
Good luck, future you, with your 40-70 year old "e-books".
Yeah? Good luck future Eagan generations reading those 200 year old books as they disintegrate into dust.

Besides, 70 years from now, people won't have to store their IP products. Why would they?

Here in LA, we are far less concerned about preserving history than on the East Coast where I grew up. There's a good reason for this. Earthquakes. If we could preserve our history, we would. But we can't. Are we worse off for it? Not really. Well, maybe when the big earthquakes hit.

You adapt to the realities. Whereas you can't imagine life without physical books, they're completely unnecessary to a quality life. What's necessary are the ideas contained in the books, and so long as they're accessible, they don't need to be in the physical form. Yes, I understand why it would sadden someone to live in a world that no longer produces bound books. I can't imagine a house without books. But that's sentimentalism, and as technology changes, so too will what our future generations find important.

You're thinking in terms of what you know. 150 years ago, people owned horses for transportation. Do they miss it? Nope. They're dead.

Enjoy,

Mixerman
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