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  #121  
Old January 18th, 2012, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by Mixerman View Post
Actually, the use of discreet reverbs is caused by how digital reverbs react. A single EMT140 will suffice. Not so with digital reverbs.

Mixerman
Could you (or someone) elaborate on that a bit?
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  #122  
Old January 18th, 2012, 05:56 PM
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My understanding is part of this has to do with how truely de-correlated the reverb output is. (Some like TC6000 are much better at this which is also why they work well for surround.)

In the case of the EMT, I'd guess, a specific ER to tail ratio and a relatively low diffusion factor have proven beneficial when wanting to add a bit of tail to acoustic instruments.
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  #123  
Old January 18th, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by nobby View Post
Could you (or someone) elaborate on that a bit?
I used discreet, when I meant discrete. I had a 50-50 shot, and I blew it.

You were suggesting that many people who mix ITB use discrete reverbs, meaning each part gets it's own reverb. I'm suggesting that this is possibly a symptom of how digital reverbs react.

Discrete reverbs aren't necessary with chambers and plates. I can use an EMT140 on multiple parts and it works great. Digital reverbs almost force me to use multiple reverbs.

There is another reason to use discrete reverbs ITB though. It allows me to ride the reverb return without worrying about what else is going into it.

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  #124  
Old January 18th, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Your last point is more about workflow. (Although one can ride the sends it's not always practical once you start to add processing to the verb returns, particularly dynamics processing. It also somewhat simplifies routing in an hybrid system.)

Maybe it's a hangup of working on consoles but sometimes I prefer to have all processing in line on some faders and not have a bazilion returns.

I find most verbs have better definition if presented with a source that's less complex anyway.
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  #125  
Old January 18th, 2012, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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I used discreet, when I meant discrete. I had a 50-50 shot, and I blew it.
Tired of discreet reverbs? LIVE NUDE PLATE NIGHT at Mixerman's! They will bare all! It's a real WET t-shirt night!

Oh baby. My chamber aches for your hot thick aux send.

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  #126  
Old January 18th, 2012, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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...Motown guy has forgotten DI inputs? In a world where so much modern music is generated entirely with virtual instruments that never saw a microphone or acoustic space?...
I was all excited about Lexi-Con jobs and early reflections until I started working with them and finally realized they were really fucking things up compared to the real chambers and plates I'd grown up on.

I was the biggest affordable home recording gear-slut in the world after moving to San Francisco in 1972. I was an early MIDI and sampler adopter, crashed on the floor of Don Buchla's hotel room at AES shows, was digidesign's 150th customer and the very first Pro Tools user at Skywalker Ranch.

Today I'm Rip Van Winkle having woken up from that dream wondering how could people have screwed everything that I love up so much?
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  #127  
Old January 19th, 2012, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

that's how I feel as well... although I was, if anything, a late adopter


at each new 'development' (ha), I found myself saying "but this doesn't sound as good', or 'but this makes it more difficult to make it sound right'

we get worn down over time, to where we simply accept that it takes longer to get the same result (or not quite as good as result) or that 'this is what we have' and we make the best of it.

and that goes round in a big self-fulfilling, self perpetuating, circle of lower budgets, lower expectations, and lower quality.


I'm cheered up.
what about you?
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  #128  
Old January 19th, 2012, 06:11 AM
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This is so true. When I started in the studio I didn't know my ass from a hole in the patch. Somehow the sounds, wether capturing them to tape or trying to assemble a mix, were coming together quite easily and often with a nice definition and focus. This had certainly nothing to do with my abilities.

The tools at my disposal now are supposedly more sophisticated and I'm more experienced yet I often have to work harder to get to the finish line...
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  #129  
Old January 19th, 2012, 06:54 AM
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Clown Re: The Reverb Discussion

So, is the Eventide plugin still worth the $800 or was it 2k? How about you, what is your fav. Less Ugly(tm) digital reverb plugin?
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  #130  
Old January 19th, 2012, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

Breverb is decent.
UAD 250 is decent
some Altiverb settings...

but 9 times out of 10 I use Revolver


but NONE of them are like outboard reverb,
not even as good as average outboard digital reverb...

and certainly not as good as great outboard reverb like a plate or the (yes, digital) 250
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  #131  
Old January 19th, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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but NONE of them are like outboard reverb,
not even as good as average outboard digital reverb...

and certainly not as good as great outboard reverb like a plate or the (yes, digital) 250
I wonder why that is the case. I mean, outboard digital reverbs are...uhm...digital. So it should be possible to transfer their algorithms to the box. Or is it the circuit design that makes them sound different ?


Marco
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  #132  
Old January 19th, 2012, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

This thread makes me want to put a speaker and mic in my storage room and just give it a shot
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  #133  
Old January 19th, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by tannoy View Post
I wonder why that is the case. I mean, outboard digital reverbs are...uhm...digital. So it should be possible to transfer their algorithms to the box. Or is it the circuit design that makes them sound different ?


Marco
Lexicon Native is reportedly the same as PCM96.
Then again, PCM96 is not an 224.
Old beast were probably affected a lot by AD/DA. And you had them return on a console.
I often found that adding some sort of coloration after the verb made it easier to fit it in.

I created a thread called "I suck at reverb" here a while ago.
Mixie said something that it well might be the reverbs I use are culprit. Well, I think it has a merit, as I feel it's much easier to come to terms with EMpTy250, ValhallaRoom or UberMod and some Nebula programs.
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  #134  
Old January 19th, 2012, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by tannoy View Post
I wonder why that is the case. I mean, outboard digital reverbs are...uhm...digital. So it should be possible to transfer their algorithms to the box. Or is it the circuit design that makes them sound different ?


Marco
If the algorithm is identical, then my guess is chances are it's just due to the fact you're running it on dedicated hardware. Possibly hardware designed around floating point calculations which'll result in more precise, faster results. So the realtime lag is reduced with greater calc precision.

I want to know why DSP calcs hit my CPU, I'd rather they went to my video card. Scientists can build supercomputers with a few CPU chips but many GPUs linked together and get great results. Analog-emulated manipulation seems like it'd be pretty similar to calculus? We're dealing with something that's supposed to be continuous, not discrete.

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  #135  
Old January 20th, 2012, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by weedywet View Post
I'm cheered up.
what about you?
I'm still fightin' the power.

http://www.jinxtigr.com/f/AllSpaceDemo.dmg

Most of you guys can't try this but some of you can- I did another reverb trying to make a 'bright algorithmic reverb' that would sit right. I've built my own plate (not well enough for it to be a GOOD plate, but it was a real plate) and I've done a lot of work with that 'everything digital is 2D and really opaque' thing.

Meh, it's a living.
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  #136  
Old January 20th, 2012, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
This thread makes me want to put a speaker and mic in my storage room and just give it a shot
Lots of studios did just that.

This thread makes me want to find the issue of tape op with the homemade plate reverbs.
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  #137  
Old January 20th, 2012, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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Originally Posted by nobby View Post
Lots of studios did just that.

This thread makes me want to find the issue of tape op with the homemade plate reverbs.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/h...n_plate_reverb

After I finish the amp I'm working on, that might be next on my list...
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  #138  
Old January 20th, 2012, 08:58 AM
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I might be able to get my old 140 back at some point...
:-)

In the meantine I have various spots I like to use for live ambience around the house. It's a great way to add some missing depth to a mix or provide a common space to disparate elements. Also, you get a different texture quite fast if you feed a sd thru a clean amp/spkr foldback or a gtr amp that's barking.
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  #139  
Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

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what is your fav. Less Ugly(tm) digital reverb plugin?
I use a grand total of two reverbs ITB (99% of the time): Logic Space Designer (convolution) and Arts Acoustic (algorithmic).


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  #140  
Old January 23rd, 2012, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: The Reverb Discussion

@Otek - Space Designer is pretty much all I use, though I will certainly give Chris's a try.
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