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Old December 10th, 2011, 02:46 AM
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Default The National Defense Authorization Act

Here's a good reason to move to canada.

If there ever was one.


The talk of the new National Defense Authorization Act made me shit in my pants this morning. Seems to be a definitive answer to the question "is nothing sacred?"

What really has begun to bother me is the glaring absurdity for a nation that is enforcing equality, freedom, and democracy in other parts of the world - to flirt with the idea of turning their own nation in a totalitarian-military-police-state. The world already has one North Korea doesn't it?

Of course, the first facebook update to alert me of this was from a clueless #occupy writer. Then later on, another article was posted by one of my more intelligent and hard-working friends. From a more credible source.

The article I linked was from a FORBES contributor. With citations.

Either way...I'm in fear.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

Maybe you should pay more attention to the clued in occupy guy.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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Originally Posted by NathanRocks88 View Post
What really has begun to bother me is the glaring absurdity for a nation that is enforcing equality, freedom, and democracy in other parts of the world - to flirt with the idea of turning their own nation in a totalitarian-military-police-state. The world already has one North Korea doesn't it?
The myth is that the United States wants to be the world's policeman because somehow that is it's destined role which it may have been at it's founding. But the truth is that today it is a military-industrial state who's foreign policies are directed towards securing resources to sustain that military state. Which ultimately is UNsustainable. Just ask 19th century Great Britain. Or Rome.

What could be the undoing of the United States would not be economic collapse or military defeat but a disruption in the food supply, possibly accompanied by a pandemic, neither which the USA is prepared to deal with at the national level. If you want to have some fun sometimes, cut the food supply off to a major American city and watch what unfolds after about three days. A good-sized 1930's style dust-bowl could do exactly that over an area covering several states. And there is NOTHING the multinational corporate establishment or DHS can do to contain the resulting chaos. We already saw a preview of exactly this in NOLA during Hurricane Katrina.

If you want to do something constructive, call the local office of your congress-critters and bitch to high-hell about it.

http://www.house.gov/
http://www.senate.gov/

Just my $0.02 in US dollars FWIW which won't be much after the oncoming inflation. Read Ravi Batra's books for more information.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

Something else for you to ponder.....

Moving to Canada might not be a safe bet considering that the Canadians have HUGE fossil fuel reserves. **IF** the United States were to fall into the hands of a military dictatorship (which I doubt) there is nothing the Canadians could effectively do to stop an American invasion. Canada and the United States share a common electric grid and railroad system and have I don't know how many highway border crossings.

Same holds true with Mexico, but in Mexico's case they hit peak oil when their Cantarell Oil Field peaked between 2003 and 2006.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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Maybe you should pay more attention to the clued in occupy guy.
I kinda lost interest in the syndicated #occupy people when they started quoting V for Vendetta monologues verbatim.

Unfortunate as I loved that movie from the day I saw it in theaters.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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Moving to Canada might not be a safe bet
Thanks for the tip pete! I'm open to pretty much any nation with a socialist form of gov't

Maybe I should consider oz-land. I could annoy slipperman and dog-sit for smileyblue
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Old December 11th, 2011, 02:57 AM
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Unfortunately it's of no use coming to Canada with our present conservative government fixation on becoming a clone of the GOP.

Since hiring a bunch of ex-Bush era consultants to help them transform thelmelves (& subsequently taking hold of Parliament) they've unfortunately become a dangerously effective political machine and have embarqued on a quest to redefine most of our government institutions to reflect their neo-liberal & neo-conservative agenda.

Lately I'm even seriously starting to fear that Grover Norquist has secretly imported his discease over here to this party.

Our Prime Minister just sold his soul again in favor of the so-called futur North-American security perimeter. Which in reality means that the NSA & CIA have open bar over here too...

It will take soooo long to undo all their bad deeds. And as always, all this is in the interest of a supposed geater economic prosperity... Mmmh?!?
:-(
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Old December 11th, 2011, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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Lately I'm even seriously starting to fear that Grover Norquist has secretly imported his discease over here to this party.
I don't know, and I'm afraid to look, but you guys don't have fillibusters that require a 2/3 majority for cloture... or do you?
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Old December 11th, 2011, 06:22 AM
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We traditionally have not had a need for it with two major parties trading (often long) majority mandates (the Liberals traditionally being the more centrist & powerful party).

It is only in the last 15-10 years or so that a number of factors has led to a real power sharing between more parties bringing with it a succession of short lived minority governments.

Last edited by Le chef; December 11th, 2011 at 06:40 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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I don't know, and I'm afraid to look, but you guys don't have fillibusters that require a 2/3 majority for cloture... or do you?

I say let the man continue to read the dictionary
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Old December 11th, 2011, 03:47 PM
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I effectively misread Nobby.
(Note to self: Must not write about politics when half-asleep in a foreign language...)
We do have filibusters (having a Brithish type parliament) & don't need any super-majority to close (this concept in itself is a bit strange).

Being from Quebec I'm not so used to the term even though I'm familiar with the concept enough unfortunately.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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I kinda lost interest in the syndicated #occupy people when they started quoting V for Vendetta monologues verbatim.
Unfortunately, there is a large cadre of paid internet trolls that swamp most "non-conservative" internet focus points...blogs, news comment boards, twitter feeds, etc.

They have two apparent goals: first, stink up the place, make it distasteful for the centrist/progressive/left crowd, and second, to add greatly to the general noise and randomness of it, to make it harder for any real discussion to take place.

For those who would call this conspiracy talk...it ain't particularly subtle. It's not like you have to stretch your imagination or facts to accommodate it.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 06:26 PM
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Thanks for the tip pete! I'm open to pretty much any nation with a socialist form of gov't

Maybe I should consider oz-land. I could annoy slipperman and dog-sit for smileyblue
Or you could move to Sweeden and annoy Otek!

From what I understand the Scandinavian countries have the best healthcare in the world, followed by the central European countries of Austria and Switzerland. And they are far from being police states.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 06:53 PM
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From what I understand the Scandinavian countries have the best healthcare in the world, followed by the central European countries of Austria and Switzerland. And they are far from being police states.
No socialized healthcare in Switzerland. It's an american style system. At least for now. The last vote for implementing a common payer system didn't lose by too much, and there will be another fairly soon, I'm sure.

Hard to implement a police state here as well. I don't think the 200,000 man militia with assault rifles at home would let that slide too easily. And that's just the active duty numbers, many people keep their rifles after active service.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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I kinda lost interest in the syndicated #occupy people when they started quoting V for Vendetta monologues verbatim.
I seem to recall that there was a survey done at some point that indicated that a large chunk of the American population would have preferred the cast of The West Wing to be in government rather than the government of the time.


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Old December 12th, 2011, 03:09 PM
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I seem to recall that there was a survey done at some point that indicated that a large chunk of the American population would have preferred the cast of The West Wing to be in government rather than the government of the time.
That was during the Bush II admin?

Martin Sheen would make an excellent president. Even his son Charlie would make a better president than any of the major GOP candidates.
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Old December 17th, 2011, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

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I effectively misread Nobby.
(Note to self: Must not write about politics when half-asleep in a foreign language...)
We do have filibusters (having a Brithish type parliament) & don't need any super-majority to close (this concept in itself is a bit strange).

Being from Quebec I'm not so used to the term even though I'm familiar with the concept enough unfortunately.
I understand (I think) the stay up all night talking and refusing to yield the floor, actual filibuster.

what i don't understand is this new 'filibuster by agreement' in which nothing actually happens, but they have just quietly given up majority rule because someone states an intent to 'filibuster'

I honestly don't understand how, parlimentarily, they get away with it at all
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Old December 17th, 2011, 09:07 AM
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This is akin to taking democracy hostage. A form of political terrorism.
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Old December 17th, 2011, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

I guess I'm not too terribly worried about the NDAA. I mean, if you can't trust the government then who can you trust?
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Old December 17th, 2011, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: The National Defense Authorization Act

The main problem with it is illustrated by recent statements made by Newt Gingrich, the current purported leader of the GOP field for President next year.

He says straight out that he wants to abolish the independent judiciary, remake it as a conservative ideological structure.

Imagine THAT GUY deciding on detentions. Imagine Rick Santorum defining who is an enemy of the state?
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