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The Mixerman, Slipperman, and Aardvark Show Mixerman, Slipperman, and Aardvark host the forum versions of their "radio" show.

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  #101  
Old April 13th, 2012, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aardvark View Post
...It is dreary and bleak here in Berlin and frankly... the women are not so hot compared to most other metropolitan areas and I suggested to someone that the reason Les German were always invading Poland was to stock up on cute girls..
That certainly isn't what I've been hearing! Are you sure you don't just want to minimize your competition?
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  #102  
Old April 13th, 2012, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

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Originally Posted by Aardvark View Post
Wrong by 180 degrees.

Mr. Crane's infraction is for shameless sucking up to Mixerperson when we all know he probably privately dismisses him like the rest of us.

Mr. Crane came very close to a similar infraction for sucking up to Weedy with the ever popular Steely Dan bashing... the guy was really pushing it there for a post or two.


.
Ah! Sucking up no is good. In zat case, you 'ave my compliments.

Say hi to the German ladies for me will ya?



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  #103  
Old April 13th, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
That certainly isn't what I've been hearing! Are you sure you don't just want to minimize your competition?
exactly.
that's a disinformation campaign... like pretending he thinks Steely Dan is good recording.
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  #104  
Old April 13th, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

note to aardy...

"Gunther" is not a woman's name.
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  #105  
Old April 13th, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoz View Post
note to aardy...

"Gunther" is not a woman's name.
...but "Gunda" is. Depending on the dialect this can be hard to tell apart so he *might* get lucky...

(On the other hand, people with names like "Klaus-Peter", "Karl-Heinz" or "Klaus-Dieter" are best avoided when looking for certain kinds of adventure.)
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  #106  
Old April 13th, 2012, 10:50 PM
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  #107  
Old April 13th, 2012, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberlehrer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoz View Post
note to aardy...

"Gunther" is not a woman's name.
...but "Gunda" is. Depending on the dialect this can be hard to tell apart so he *might* get lucky...
Let me visualize this for Aardy, just to be on the safe side:

Gunda:


Gunther:




Mac
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  #108  
Old April 13th, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Here's a great piece by Allen Farmelo in his Tape Op blog. He seems to take issue with Ethan's heralding of straight A/Bing.

I wrote a response, of course.

Enjoy,

Mixerman
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  #109  
Old April 14th, 2012, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Here is my response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixerman on Tape Op Blog
Thank you Allen for this blog post.

I've explained this concept to Ethan many times on the Internet.

When evaluating sound, you must take into account emotional impact, and you canít evaluate emotional impact by flip, flip, flipping back and forth between two audio files (which is exactly what they become, nothing but audio files). Our brains arenít geared to evaluate sound (or any other external information for that matter) without an emotional component. This is especially so with music, which is a medium of expression. When you flip back and forth, the music is irrelevant, hence the term ďaudio files.Ē When youíre recording music, the sound and the performance are inextricably attached. They go hand and hand. You canít evaluate sound as sound alone. Itís how the sound works in the context of the music that offers us some useful basis of comparison.

Itís also nearly impossible to make comparisons when you donít have a stake in the product. I can hear insanely subtle details due to my twenty-plus years of making records, but if you hand me a song I donít know or donít like, those differences wonít matter to me, and therefore I will struggle to hear them. I have no stake and therefore Iím not being affected emotionally. Sonic differences in that context are irrelevant. We canít discount the brain in all of this.

As producers and engineers we automatically have a stake in the product we make. Weíre usually so intimately familiar with the work that subtle changes in how a track makes us feel are noticed instantly. This explains why professional record-makers cringe when we hear MP3s of our own work. We hear and feel exactly how the product is affected. We have the basis of comparison between our artistic intentions and the reality of an MP3. Ethan might be right about our lack of auditory memory in the abstract, but if you attach a song to that audio, our auditory memory becomes outstanding. If it didnít we wouldnít be able to sing back a melody we just heard.

A consumer who emotionally invests herself in a full resolution version of a song, given the same setting will recognize the poor quality of an MP3 version instantly. For the untrained ear (and even for the trained, really), a large percentage of the difference between the high-resolution track and the MP3 is felt rather than heard. Once there's an understanding (and memory) of the artistic intent, the MP3 then pales in comparison.

Back and forth A/Bs are fine for quick decisions within the context of the mix. There will be times when we evaluate audio purely as audio. The further along we get into the process, the more the music and emotion come into play, and thatís when the critical decisions are made.

I believe Michael Wagner once said that as record-makers ďwe manipulate emotions.Ē I would just add, sound is merely the canvas from which we achieve that goal.

Enjoy,

Mixerman
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  #110  
Old April 14th, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberlehrer View Post
...but "Gunda" is. Depending on the dialect this can be hard to tell apart so he *might* get lucky...

(On the other hand, people with names like "Klaus-Peter", "Karl-Heinz" or "Klaus-Dieter" are best avoided when looking for certain kinds of adventure.)
This might explain all those six inch clits...


... there has been a slight upgrading of the girl report after last night's adventures in liquid based brain damage but we are still inclined to believe Poland was invaded for the girls.


Cheers,
Aardvark




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  #111  
Old April 14th, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post
Let me visualize this for Aardy, just to be on the safe side:

Gunda:


Gunther:




Mac
Wow, there Mac,

I'm dead sure you could not tell those two apart in a double blind A/B....






All the best,
the keks


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  #112  
Old April 14th, 2012, 02:48 PM
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  #113  
Old April 14th, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keks View Post
I'm dead sure you could not tell those two apart in a double blind A/B....
Are you suggesting they'd NULL?
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  #114  
Old April 14th, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

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Are you suggesting they'd NULL?
***laughing my morning coffee through my nose***
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  #115  
Old April 14th, 2012, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Thomas Barefoot weighs in

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
Please tell me Thomas Barefoot is being sarcastic there...





Cheers,
Tim
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  #116  
Old April 14th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Who is this A. Bing character, and how did he get dragged into this, anyway?


JLE
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  #117  
Old April 14th, 2012, 06:23 PM
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Wooa! Man, did I just lost respect for Mr. Barefoot...
Luckily ATC and PMC are still building monitors.

I guess this has more do with political gs clown-assfuckery to sell gear than anything else but even then... Hard to get over that one! :(
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  #118  
Old April 14th, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

mixerman, I wrote a response to Ethan's response to your response:

Quote:
Sat, Apr.14.2012 - dwoz wrote:
we can all agree to disagree about what is important.

I have a little aphorism I spout now and again...that most people listen to music, while audiophiles listen to sound systems.

What this means, of course, is that there is simply not a single objective standard for "quality." And a particular person will apply different objective standards of quality in different situations.

i.e. "context matters."

In illustration of Mixerman's point, I reminisce about a recording situation I was in once, where an instrumental part I had contributed was not, shall we say, exactly ripping the socks and panties off the listeners. I listened to the candidate mix they were discussing and though it sounded quite "ok" and well-constructed and "good..." they were right. It was NIGHT AND DAY difference to the scratch mix I had checked my part with. Turns out the instrumental part I had contributed had been flown into the mix a mere handful of millis late-to-clock.

Just a handful of milliseconds. It utterly torpedoed the emotional impact of the part, though of course you'd be hard-pressed to argue that such a minor timing difference was discernable in an A/B test. (it isn't).

Additionally, the mixer had made a small EQ change to the part, which served to move it out of the sonic space of a second part, but which eliminated the "alike-ness" of that frequency spectra with a third, rhythmic part, which disassociated the two parts and made them less cohesive. A/B of the two versions simply did not reveal this, though I, the person most invested in the part, most certainly missed it, like I'm miss my car that was stolen out of the supermarket parking lot when I came out with my bag of milk and eggs.

What does this mean? That A/B testing CAN simply have zero relevance in the context of the production of master recordings, and in fact may OFTEN have zero relevance in that context.
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  #119  
Old April 15th, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixerman View Post
Here's a great piece by Allen Farmelo in his Tape Op blog. He seems to take issue with Ethan's heralding of straight A/Bing.

I wrote a response, of course.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

The coffee analogy is a pretty good one. But I'll avoid the usual parochialist muppet show we sometimes like to enact over here and shan't talk about coffee.

I did want to note, however, that the content of Farmelo's article is very similar in some points to an article I read by Mr. "Golden Ears" Moulton. Here it is:

http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/so_w...tal_anyway/P0/
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  #120  
Old April 16th, 2012, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Ethan Winer in TapeOp

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7785490-post1.html

Quote:
I really really do not want to be doing this. Unfortunately I have to.
A good friend and colleague is being unfairly treated here.

I have quietly appealed for a reasonable solution from our moderator Jay.
I have waited. I strongly suspect he has been overruled.

Now Ethan has been informed by Jules that he is fully banned from GS forever.

So, I am compelled to stand by my friend.

I will not post here again until this is resolved. Furthermore I am considering gradually removing all posts.

I appeal to our other friends, (you know who you are) , to join in this 'Strike', and to announce your intentions here.
No-one should be left to stand alone in the face of such bullying.

With Regret, DD
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