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  #41  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

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Originally Posted by jord View Post
Perhaps it's a measure they were forced to resort to in order to try and get airplay, or a reflection of past scars. I'll agree that it sounds like a U2 clone, but there is much worse polluting the air waves as it is.

jord
Well thats my point!
tho I may not of explained myself in the right way
it feels like every thing is done to a template now
It`s as if we have a number of pre sets and we stick to them
the record companys must be so fucking scared to take a chance?
you know like the first time I heard Stings voice on the radio
it was so fucking unique it grabed your attention
cant remember the last time that happened to me.
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  #42  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

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Originally Posted by jord View Post
I'm not saying to get rid of the RIAA.
I didn't mean to imply that. I meant those types of arguments are exactly the kind posters @ the boycott-riaa.com forums use to rationalize stealing music.
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  #43  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

How did this turn into a RIAA discussion?
Stealing music is a problem, not the problem that some would have you believe. BUT, I say let the RIAA go after downloaders HARD. It keep the pressure off the artists themselves to do it.
I just found my bands cd available for on a few torrent sites... downloaded at least 500 times in a week, (chump change, i know)
What can I do? I can thank them and try to direct them to our website and get them to sign up for the mailing list and maybe buy a song or two. That keeps us friendly and helps promote the band and get the name out there. Having someone else fight the fight and keep people from STEALING our music is good, so we dont look like Metallica and piss people off who may become fans and customers.

But what does all this have to do with falsely creating a buzz about a band to prove some point to the record companies and the general public?
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  #44  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

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Originally Posted by jord View Post
Considering that the RIAA are a powerful lobbying group themselves, that would probably sink any proposed lobbying for reforms. I can see this, and I'm not even an American. It's not about getting rid of the RIAA. It's about getting them to rethink about who they serve and what they are doing.

jord
I think this is again a misunderstanding of some things. First, the RIAA is only a "powerful lobbying group" so long as the businesses they represent are profitable enough to afford to keep it a "powerful lobbying group". Once the major labels profit margin drops to the point where thier parent companies see them as a liability, they will either cease to be sold off and become independents (like happened with Warner Music Group) and will have far shallower pockets, and as result, will likely choose to spend far less money on lobbying, which means thier representation will likely be diminished in "power". Also, at this point, I don't know that the RIAA wouldn't be more open to the idea of revising fair use to the point where they can enforce the rightful protection of the copyrights they own without having to also go after people lip-syncing to songs on youtube for instance. And if they aren't? Well, it's clear that the route they are going right now is not working, so it's just a matter of time till the indie's are up to bat. The problem is - what do we do when we're in that position? As indie's we're far better and more able to adapt to the marketing needs of a rapidly shifting market, but we spend so little time discussing how the problems with enforcing copyright ownership without alienating the audience could be dealt with - instead we make the RIAA into either the boogieman or the Peter Griffin style incompetent father figure.
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  #45  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Meanwhile what I feel are the real problems with the music industry, each an elephant standing in the room, are not being addressed. The biggest is the collapse of local music scenes where talented beginners can actually earn a living. The other is the unprecedented stranglehold that Madison Avenue has put on broadcast and live performance venues. This 1-2 punch is killing the public's interest in new music.

I think most of the stuff people rant about are symptoms of these fundamental underlying problems. Getting rid of record companies, Cheap Channel or the people who run them is not likely to change anything.
Nail on the Head
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  #46  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:25 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

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Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
I didn't mean to imply that. I meant those types of arguments are exactly the kind posters @ the boycott-riaa.com forums use to rationalize stealing music.
I appreciate you calling that to my attention. I can see where my points may be taken as rationalization... or should I say mistaken. If anything, I just want to see some changes to how things are happening these days.

jord
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  #47  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:31 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

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Originally Posted by stoned grace View Post
What can I do? I can thank them and try to direct them to our website and get them to sign up for the mailing list and maybe buy a song or two. That keeps us friendly and helps promote the band and get the name out there. Having someone else fight the fight and keep people from STEALING our music is good, so we dont look like Metallica and piss people off who may become fans and customers.
Keep repeating this until you believe it.

I know a bunch of artists up here that don't share this vision.

jord
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  #48  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:32 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts

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Originally Posted by Scratchy Potts View Post
Well thats my point!
tho I may not of explained myself in the right way
it feels like every thing is done to a template now
It`s as if we have a number of pre sets and we stick to them
the record companys must be so fucking scared to take a chance?
you know like the first time I heard Stings voice on the radio
it was so fucking unique it grabed your attention
cant remember the last time that happened to me.
In your own illustrious words:

Nail on the head!
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  #49  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

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Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
All I know is it will cost me 99 to support the cause + I feel it's a valid one.
Totally valid and I might just do the same - whether it's effective is another story entirely, which is my point - my hope is, from this discussion, people might put more thought into how they can help shape the future of these mediums, since obviously we all want them to be there so we can be a part of them.

As far as the David vs. Goliath thing, you are right that it's the type of angle that makes for a nice fluffy public interest mention, but the fact that story would inevitably involve talking about the increasing popularity of podcasting may be inherrently deterring (my spelling sucks) - it's fairly obvious that the network news and major papers are being hit on all sides pretty hard, including by podcasts:

The New York Times makes it's daily edition available online and have recently added a number of free podcasts to combat the popularity of the internet for news. They are clearly aware of the power of podcasts.

Every major news outlet offers podcasts now.

ABC news hired the anchor from an extremely popular podcast to anchor one for them.

Podcasts, blogs, etc. are clearly making a dent in the evening news and I'm sure they're not all that psyched about reporting on thier growing popularity.
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  #50  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

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Originally Posted by jord View Post
In your own illustrious words:

Nail on the head!
Yea i know .....thanks anyway!
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  #51  
Old March 21st, 2007, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jord View Post
Keep repeating this until you believe it.

I know a bunch of artists up here that don't share this vision.

jord
i believe it now. I understand how the game is being played right now and we have to play under those rules. I want illegal downloading to stop, but until it does what can you do?

There are 2 kinds of people out there who steal music. People who think they are entitled to it because of what ever view they hold of record companies and artists. and those who dont really know any better. I think the second group is getting smaller. Until you change the thinking of the first group, there is nothing you can do on a one to one level as an artist.
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  #52  
Old March 21st, 2007, 06:15 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

You forgot one group of people: those who want to have a full listen to an album before they buy it (and many of the ones I know either do buy it or erase the MP3's - do you classify them as thieves?).

The only game it looks like from this angle is that you're smiling to their face while your buddies are preparing to lynch them from behind.

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  #53  
Old March 21st, 2007, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jord View Post
You forgot one group of people: those who want to have a full listen to an album before they buy it (and many of the ones I know either do buy it or erase the MP3's - do you classify them as thieves?).

The only game it looks like from this angle is that you're smiling to their face while your buddies are preparing to lynch them from behind.

jord
Yes they are thieves. There are plenty of ways to hear tracks of an album legally without stealing the cd first. You cant walk into a store, swipe a cd off a shelf and say you just wanted to listen before you bought and will bring the money later if you like the cd.

There is no gray area. Its stealing. I cant even see how it is even a debate. There is no lynching from behind. There is only hope that people who are stealing from artists will stop and be held accountable. My point is that artists cant really be the ones to call people out about it.
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  #54  
Old March 21st, 2007, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Go to amazon they give you a little snippet of each track to listen to as do many other sites.
Quote:
You forgot one group of people: those who want to have a full listen to an album before they buy it (and many of the ones I know either do buy it or erase the MP3's - do you classify them as thieves?).
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  #55  
Old March 21st, 2007, 07:00 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

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Originally Posted by stoned grace View Post
Yes they are thieves. There are plenty of ways to hear tracks of an album legally without stealing the cd first. You cant walk into a store, swipe a cd off a shelf and say you just wanted to listen before you bought and will bring the money later if you like the cd.
But you can, up here, listen to a CD in it entirety in some of music stores. I dare you to call your prospective customers "thieves" to their faces. It'll do wonders for your sales.

Considering that I have seen a lot of my works on many of the torrent sites in many languages, I have yet to call any one of them a thief. In fact, I have spoken to a number of them and supported them as if they actually bought the stuff, and that generated sales.


Quote:
There is no gray area. Its stealing. I cant even see how it is even a debate. There is no lynching from behind. There is only hope that people who are stealing from artists will stop and be held accountable. My point is that artists cant really be the ones to call people out about it.
I only hope your prospective customers see it the same way as you do. You are the one they will point the finger at... not your representative.

jord
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  #56  
Old March 21st, 2007, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jord View Post
But you can, up here, listen to a CD in it entirety in some of music stores. I dare you to call your prospective customers "thieves" to their faces. It'll do wonders for your sales.

Considering that I have seen a lot of my works on many of the torrent sites in many languages, I have yet to call any one of them a thief. In fact, I have spoken to a number of them and supported them as if they actually bought the stuff, and that generated sales.




I only hope your prospective customers see it the same way as you do. You are the one they will point the finger at... not your representative.

jord
You can listen to cds in stores most places, that is not what you are talking about. You are talking about stealing a cd before you buy it.
I have thanked all the sites that I could for sharing our cd, does that not mean they are stealing it? No.

When the RIAA or who ever comes down on music thieves, it doesnt reflect on the artists at all. If i hire my own attorney to go after people, thats another story.

It seems to me that you are trying to justify stealing music. I have a hard time understanding why.
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  #57  
Old March 21st, 2007, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Back to Bumrush...

We - the people - are going to show those big nasty record labels our force by getting an unsigned artist to the top on Itunes? Isn't it us - the fucking people - who are buying those big nasty record labels' music in the first place? People buy music for reasons many of us would find lacking: it's hyped, it's "in", or whatever....and now we're going to protest by doing the exact same thing?

The fact that Black Lab don't have a label doesn't make them any better. They sound pretty label to me, except maybe a decade or two too late. I feel much better protesting through buying a Keith Jarret album or sumthin', thankyouverymuch!
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  #58  
Old March 21st, 2007, 08:53 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoned grace View Post
It seems to me that you are trying to justify stealing music. I have a hard time understanding why.
Considering that you are trying to punish the people in question that I am referring to that are either purchasing the CD's or erasing the files, yours sounds like sour grapes of someone being burned on the net by seeing their stuff on it.

If you want to punish your customers, go for it. And, yes, they may have downloaded it to start, but they indeed liked it enough to go buy it. Like I said, you become the front line and they'll blame you, not the RIAA, for being punished. What is needed is an alternative.

jord
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  #59  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jord View Post
those who want to have a full listen to an album before they buy it (and many of the ones I know either do buy it or erase the MP3's - do you classify them as thieves?)
jord, you + I both know that people who have only downloaded songs + then erased them afterwards have had the RIAA knocking on their door.

So, why do you keep bringing up examples that aren't the people the RIAA is campaigning against?
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  #60  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

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Originally Posted by Trazan View Post
People buy music for reasons many of us would find lacking: it's hyped, it's "in", or whatever....and now we're going to protest by doing the exact same thing?
Traz iz rite everybody, we should support independent music by not buying it.

Brilliant!
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