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  #61  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jord View Post
If you want to punish your customers, go for it.
jord, help me out here, could you please define the word "customer" for me? Seriously.

Isn't a customer someone who purchases a product?

The RIAA is not coming down on people who are buying records, are they?
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  #62  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:08 AM
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Pie Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Ahhh, so this is where everyone is . . . right in the FRAY!!!!!

I think the problem of the current music scene is a really complex one; it's not going to be solved by promoting one band to #1.

I wonder sometimes if part of the problem is that there's just too much music available. It's like people are stuffing themselves on this "buffet of music", yet they just keep coming back for more and more and more. They keep craving what's new, and the record company machine just keeps churning out the junk to feed that. Music has been devalued!!!

Downloading is the best way to do that--it's the best way to FEED the addiction of "what's new". It doesn't help that music today (i.e. what's on the radio--Top 40) has a "short shelf life". This just furthers it. It's like a Twinkie. You can't really savour a Twinkie. It's an empy candy that just keeps you craving more. No staying power, no complexity of taste, no appreciation. And the people who make it, know that. That's why it's called JUNK FOOD! Time aligning, click track, Auto-tuned junk food.

I wonder too, if it's more of a North American thing. Not that Europe is drastically different, but--in general--they tend to stress quality, whereas N.A. tends to stress quantity. But, perhaps that's generalizing too much.

The whole recorded music thing is flawed. Before technology people had to make music themselves or go hear it live. When technology grew, the live aspect was still big; and, many band's fanbase/popularity grew as a result of extensive touring (live playing). It almost seems like the recorded medium has taken over. Music today is more about image, popularity and money. One just has to take a look at American/Canadian Idol to see that.

Perhaps part of the solution is for bands to just get out there and play play play. And, when they're not doing that, they need to write write write. Maybe even focus less on the recorded medium and more on the live aspect of they're careers. Yeah, it means less work for us, but it means better quality music in the long run. Moreover, it doesn't help that everyone can buy a DAW and then call themselves a producer/recording engineer/mastering engineer. In a sense, amateurs are just furthering the amateurs and post that crap on the web for people to download--Twinkie, anyone?! Everyone knows that recording a seasoned band is by far better than Auto tuning a singer, Beat Detectiving a drummer, teaching a gtr player how to tune, and firing the bass player and playing the parts yourself.

Less is more, quality versus quantity.

O.k., I'm done; now . . . I'm off to get some McDonalds.
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  #63  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Expensive View Post
I think the problem of the current music scene is a really complex one; it's not going to be solved by promoting one band to #1.
I'm pretty certain if that song goes to #1 all the industry's ills will solved.

And for just 99. Wow.
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  #64  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

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Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trazan View Post
People buy music for reasons many of us would find lacking: it's hyped, it's "in", or whatever....and now we're going to protest by doing the exact same thing?
Traz iz rite everybody, we should support independent music by not buying it.

Brilliant!
That is definitely where we disagree.
I don't buy music according to its 'independent' or 'label' status.
I buy music because I love it.

The problem you are trying to solve is known as 'the inverted pyramid'. Product on top, customer at the base. Your average customer has more than music to spend his hard-earned cash on these days. I'm not even talking about your average teenager.
In my opinion you solve that with quality, not quantity.

Labels may have lost the plot, but I don't see the 'independent scene' acting much different. BTW, am I the only one to think that 'indie' (much like 'alternative') has completely lost its meaning ?

You are promoting politics while the focus should be on music.
Force-feeding anything (mainstream OR independent music) always leaves a taste of 'too much'.
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  #65  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

I hear ya, Goes, and to add a few more centiems--I too only buy albums that I really like, I mean really, really like. Granted, I don't buy albums very often, but I have listened to the ones I have beaucoup, and I'll gladly pay to replace them should they one day get played to death. Sure, a lot of them aren't even from the 90's, or the 80's, but that's subject for a whole different can o' worms.

The track by these Black Labs moved me not one millimeter, so for that reason alone, I just can't bring myself to even consider supporting them--even if it is in the name of stickin' it to the label-man.

For me, there are other ways of doing that, like as stated, by just buying the music that moves me, and making music that does hopefully the same, and when possible, checking out the gigs of bands that make me giggle with delight, or even sharing the mic with some of them from time to time.

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  #66  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 01:37 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
jord, you + I both know that people who have only downloaded songs + then erased them afterwards have had the RIAA knocking on their door.

So, why do you keep bringing up examples that aren't the people the RIAA is campaigning against?
Actually, let's clarify one major point: considering that I am in Canada, the RIAA has no power here whatsoever. In fact, there was a disturbing saying going around that "if you want to download free music, become a Canadian". This was mainly due to the Supreme Court citing 2 points and I paraphrase (bastardize):

1) Providers handing their logs of users over would violate a major Canadian Privacy Act.

2) Because ALL Canadians pay a levy on all blank media to recover artists lost revenues (which stemmed from recording from TV and radio -- which I am sure everyone has done at least once), in a sense they are paying for a crime that they haven't yet committed (this was actually an interpreted version of the panel of judge's remarks by a Canadian Copyright lawyer).

The people I am talking about have erased the files all on their own. In fact, everything they have done are in accordance to their own convictions and not any organizations. I, and my family for that matter, have often "counselled" people - some from our own church, no doubt - on this matter of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". People I have talked to that have already downloaded MP3 have been asked, "now that you've heard it, are you going to buy it?" Trust me, many people resist the question at first, but something deeper sets in. I know, because I will certain never claim that I am an angel.

So, yes, they become customer because they purchased what they originally downloaded. If we can't change the law, we can change their hearts.

jord

Last edited by jord; March 22nd, 2007 at 01:46 PM.
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  #67  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 01:45 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
jord, help me out here, could you please define the word "customer" for me? Seriously.

Isn't a customer someone who purchases a product?

The RIAA is not coming down on people who are buying records, are they?
Again, see above...

These people are purchasing the product. They're just doing things a little backwards. You wouldn't believe how powerfully hearts can change when done from the inside...

jord
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  #68  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trazan
People buy music for reasons many of us would find lacking: it's hyped, it's "in", or whatever....and now we're going to protest by doing the exact same thing?
Traz iz rite everybody, we should support independent music by not buying it.

Brilliant!
Duuuuude! Cheap tactics. No, as I said, support it by eating bananas sideways.

It's the fucking "we" that are buying the label's music. If we think people are buying shitty music we need to do something about the "we" and not "them". In this case I believe that's better done by fighting for what you love rather than defining an enemy.






Hey, where's my fucking sitar...?


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  #69  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - Thur, March 22

This is what music radio has turned into and, if you follow the links, you'll realize that I'm dead serious:

http://muzak.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzak

People absolutely need to get out and play.

They also need to play for middle and high school kids without pandering to them. We also need to create a new generation of venues for people to play in without losing money and a new generation of independent record stores.
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  #70  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 05:49 PM
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Beer Thirty Re: Bum Rush the Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
The biggest is the collapse of local music scenes where talented beginners can actually earn a living. The other is the unprecedented stranglehold that Madison Avenue has put on broadcast and live performance venues. This 1-2 punch is killing the public's interest in new music.


YES!!! on point!!
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  #71  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

I'm pretty certain we're not gonna solve anything with 99, but I'm quite confident it ain't gonna hurt.

Here's the link to Black Lab "Mine Again" on iTunes.

I just invested 99 in the future of something. It's clearly debatable what that is. But my optimism causes me to believe it might help.
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  #72  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

Nothing wrong with optimism.
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  #73  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:29 PM
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Sushi Re: Bum Rush the Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye View Post
I just invested 99 in the future of something. It's clearly debatable what that is. But my optimism causes me to believe it might help.
Even if it's just a tap on the shoulder saying, "Hey!", it's a good first step. I'm in as well.

jord
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  #74  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts

Cool. Thanx, dood!
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  #75  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

I'm still confused at what the ultimate outcome is supposed to be?

I still may buy the tune because I like to support indie artists, but I'm still real fuzzy on the point.

Whose shoulder are we tapping? The powers that be arent going to care that a bunch of people used a gimmick to push an indie up the charts for a day. What happens the next day when they dont sell a song.

It would be very nice if they charted and just by being on the chart, they continued to sell. That would be great for them, but how does it help any one else?
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Old March 22nd, 2007, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoned grace View Post
I'm still confused at what the ultimate outcome is supposed to be?

I still may buy the tune because I like to support indie artists, but I'm still real fuzzy on the point.

Whose shoulder are we tapping? The powers that be arent going to care that a bunch of people used a gimmick to push an indie up the charts for a day. What happens the next day when they dont sell a song.

It would be very nice if they charted and just by being on the chart, they continued to sell. That would be great for them, but how does it help any one else?
I think that the point's been pretty much well made that this won't really do all that much, but for the most part the intentions seem good and it doesn't seem that it would do much harm doing it once. If people want to do this, more power to them, but I do think it's good that there is a discussion of the effectiveness of such action.
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  #77  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

Not having an impact on iTunes top 100 so far... ....have no idea how their ratings are tabulated, though. Does anyone involved in this project know? Seems like the assumption is that it's more or less instantaneous.

Hey, I've got an idea. There's a Zombies track perched at #45 as I write this -- how cool is THAT, btw? -- so next time let's skip this tapping some random indie band on the shoulder with the golden finger and let's shoot a great classic track up the charts!

I kinda like that notion, for a few reasons.

Anyhoo...gotta love those Zombies.


Cheers all.

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  #78  
Old March 23rd, 2007, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

Charles,

Thanks for posting this.

These guys were actually signed to Epic a couple years ago with their album, See The Sun. After their A&R person was fired for signing a band, which met a horrible fate, their record was shelved. Tom Lord Alge mixed the majority of that record, as well as Andy himself.

I am really excited about the potential of this manner of music marketing. Who knows? It could manage to create a new paradigm.

Stewart
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  #79  
Old March 23rd, 2007, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

OMG... this iz Bitchslap.
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  #80  
Old March 23rd, 2007, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Bum Rush the Charts - iTunes TODAY!

And you're welcome, Stew.

Best,
C
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