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  #41  
Old January 6th, 2008, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

"Touching bass"... Alright already, heheh! I've been spelling it punny for so long now that it's become 2nd nature.

As for the produuusah posting in the PLAYAS' thread, we'll let that one sliiiiiiiiiide--like backbones and sacroiliacs, 'n rapsacks 'n backpacks...

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Carlo: ...when a player posts a part, and gets no response, what is he gonna feel?

A dog needs somethin', other than a turned back. He goes and eats somewhere else!

You don't HAVE to have a great bed-side manner...but it sure helps.
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  #42  
Old January 6th, 2008, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

sorry. no more posts fro....




dammit.
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  #43  
Old January 6th, 2008, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by CaptainHook View Post
Isn't mixerman mixing Aardvarks team?
If so, i'm sure he said he can't get to the mix until he finishes
his current project.

Which means Aardy can't even erase and re-do the mix job
until Mixie has done it!

You make the fatal mistake of assuming that Aardvark is bound by mundane "space/time" constraints.


dwoz
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  #44  
Old January 6th, 2008, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

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maintaining such a narrow view of things is doing yourself a tremendous disservice
Well, you know what they say, the grass is always flatter on the other side of the pool...

I realize I should have known better than opening a can 'o' worms (duh). I'm sorry if you felt offended in any way. Let's just say you're right and it is a question of local sub-cultural background references & differences. I thus hereto and therefore apologize. In all good spirits
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  #45  
Old January 6th, 2008, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by mousdrvr View Post
Even though I thought "man there is no way in hell I can sing this song effectively" Seriously, I even pm'd Lees to that effect,
-mous
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  #46  
Old January 6th, 2008, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

I really didn't feel like my CaPE experience was really much different this time than previously, except for the fact that I wasn't a slacker this time (I have been quite late with my parts on some past ones ).

I guess I was fortunate that my bass part pretty much wrote itself, and what I came up with fit pretty much right away (my initial track was a little rough, but I figured that out on my own even before Grapestomper did!). It was a change for me that I was asked to do a bunch of takes so that Pimp would have something to work with if needed, in the past I'd just work to get one take I was happy with, but it was fun to do, so...

I've been on some really great CaPE teams in the past, and on some that were less wonderful but got a song out, and most recently, on one that flamed out after a promising start, and I've been both good and bad as a teammate. This time it was all good...

Cheers, Tim
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  #47  
Old January 6th, 2008, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

My approach to this CaPE wasn't really different from the others I've played on. I approached it pretty much the same way, but on some of the past teams I've thrown out a suggestion here and there. On this team I put together a drum track that I thought would fit the tune and Grape's excellent description of his vision for the song (even though that didn't really mention anything drum-specific). My only suggestion was to make sure we kept the 5/8 part.

This is probably the first time I've had really specific suggestions on my drum track. Being the sideman, I incorporated the suggestion and off we went. It does help that Tarmadillo and I were somehow heading down the same groove.

A producer's CaPE requires alot of time, effort, and vision on the producer's part. Sure it is possible to get a song done (and a good one at that) if the producer moves to more of a point man role, but the strong minded produce will need willing sidemen to make his vision complete. We definitely had it all on Team Grapestomper.
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  #48  
Old January 7th, 2008, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

First CAPE for me.

Ours went really smoothly, I guess. People got good stuff in on time. Maybe the vision changed a little from Lees' original thought, but if so, I think it did pretty early on... like, when we chose the tempo. But, I dunno, maybe it was later, and he just let it play out where it was headed. I'm sure some of that change was my doing, as I threw on some BGVs at the last second, and mixed the thing probably a little more "slick" than he was initially anticipating. But, if there were objections I didn't hear them... maybe Leester did hear it, and chose as the producer to go with what I did anyway.

Anyway, I didn't feel any negative vibe from anyone about how it went down or whatever. Maybe it was there and I just didn't see it... but from my perspective everything was hunky-dory.

Good times. Good times.
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  #49  
Old January 7th, 2008, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Halligan View Post
What I don't feel is any sense of connection to, or "ownership" of the song at all.

It was just like a job...except for the whole y'know...getting paid thing.

I did it to the best of my ability.

Next.
Very, very trenchant observation Tim. Similar feelings here-- albeit that I "owned" Team EyreSpace's song for the length of time it took me to sing/track it. That may be the point of the exercise, or if not the point, at least an unexpected consequence.
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  #50  
Old January 7th, 2008, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Very, very trenchant observation Tim. Similar feelings here-- albeit that I "owned" Team EyreSpace's song for the length of time it took me to sing/track it. That may be the point of the exercise, or if not the point, at least an unexpected consequence.
WOW. I agree this is a point worth fleshing out a bit more. And it's not just germaine to CAPE but working in music in general.

The idea that during any given musical interaction, one should attempt to completely embrace the thing and put out like it's the last thing you'll ever do. Then be able to completely walk away from it without looking back. It's no wonder musicians are whacky.

Completely committed, willfully disconnected.

This holds true even for the writer, no? A writer should bring their own DNA, guts, sweat, personality, etc. to each song and then be able to simply tear that page outta their notebook and start working on the next one. If a writer can't let go of their song, then why EVER give it to someone else to perform?

dik
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  #51  
Old January 7th, 2008, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

I have had the good fortune of being on two Cape Teams with great teammates. My experiences were positive and both teams seemed to work together very well. There was no infighting, no one quit, everyone turned their tracks in on time, the musicianship and mixing were solid, there were no significant stresses or “diva moments” and our final products were submitted on time. Both Capes were somewhat different in how the songs were approached and how much input I, as a player, had on the finished product.

On Cape V Team Elemental, I played electric guitars and had quite a bit of leeway from the team in how I approached my parts. We had numerous Skype conference calls and the whole thing was very much a group effort in terms of the overall direction of the song and how the individual parts would work in the arrangement. Everyone wanted to do what was best for the song and I think we accomplished that goal. We were able to communicate with and feed off of each other and that pushed us to play better and more cohesively as a group.

On Cape 6 Team Normie, I was drafted as a bass player (in spite of my screen name, I am a decent guitar player and merely an adequate, at best, bass player). This team operated a bit differently than my last one. Early on, I submitted a demo track and heard nothing. After a few weeks, I got a message with an audio example of what the producer wanted to hear from me on bass. I suggested a few minor changes, which he agreed to, and otherwise played it the way he wanted. In the meantime, the structure of the song had changed a bit and the guitar parts had changed as well. I thought we would end up with something a bit chaotic, but the final product ended up better and much more coherent than I expected. I'm pretty sure the end result is pretty close to what Normie envisioned. This experience was like making a piece of a mystery puzzle and submitting it for assembly without ever knowing what the big picture was. It was a bit unnerving (not knowing how my part fit in with the rest), but overall it seemed to work.

Personally, I prefer the experience of the more active player involvement I had in Cape V as opposed to the purely session work I had in Cape 6. However, both were good experiences.

In addition to collaborating with others, playing outside one's preferred genre or even playing a secondary (as opposed to primary) instrument, I think the Cape experience is supposed to be educational and fun. For me, it has accomplished those goals.
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  #52  
Old January 8th, 2008, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dikledoux View Post
WOW. I agree this is a point worth fleshing out a bit more. And it's not just germaine to CAPE but working in music in general.

It's no wonder musicians are whacky.

Completely committed, willfully disconnected.
dik
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  #53  
Old January 8th, 2008, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dikledoux View Post
This holds true even for the writer, no? A writer should bring their own DNA, guts, sweat, personality, etc. to each song and then be able to simply tear that page outta their notebook and start working on the next one. If a writer can't let go of their song, then why EVER give it to someone else to perform?
I've been blocked for so long now I can just about remember what it's like to actually finish something... but yes. You need to bring the best of yourself to the table when you sit down to write-- if you are going to learn anything. On the solitary nature of writing, Anne Lamott wrote:

Quote:
You are going to have to give and give and give, or there's no reason for you to be writing. You have to give from the deepest part of yourself, and you are going to have to go on giving, and the giving is going to have to be its own reward. There is no cosmic importance to your getting something published, but there is in learning to be a giver.
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Isn't that incredible? It took me better than a quarter century to learn, the hard way, that hard work at something you want to be doing is the most fun that you can have out of bed.... To learn that the dummies are the ones who think it possible to cheat the boss or the customers without cheating themselves; to learn that the smart man finds ways to make everything he does be work; to learn that "leisure" time is truly pleasurable (indeed tolerable) only to the extent that it is subconscious grazing for information with which to infuse newer, better work.
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  #54  
Old January 8th, 2008, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
On the solitary nature of writing, Anne Lamott wrote:

And Spider Robinson:
Who else but Fulcrum can quote Ann Lamott and Spider Robinson in the same post? And it's relevant!
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CAPE V – Team Resurrection: Bass (fretted & fretless), BGVs,
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  #55  
Old January 8th, 2008, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

My thoughts on the past two CAPEs mirror those of mingus, for the most part. For CAPE 5, we had a very capable point man, but he listened to all ideas, and we sorted things out together in a team environment, with weekly Skype conferences. We'd all suggest parts and ideas, and comment on the tracking. We had terrific teammates, so everything was very cordial. I felt very invested in what was happening.

For CAPE 6, I had a terrific producer. Very capable and professional, obviously. However, the experience was very different from CAPE 5. This time around, none of the ideas were mine, and I had no hand in picking the material. This is perfectly fine, as I understand the role of the producer. It's his/her vision we're trying to execute, and hopefully I came close to giving the producer what he wanted (I certainly tried). However, there was definitely no feeling of belonging to a team. There were no team meetings, no interaction with other team members. Team meetings would have been a waste of time, since there were no decisions to be made, no opinions to listen to, so I certainly understand not holding them. I'm merely pointing out that the "team" aspect of CAPE was pretty much non-existent this time 'round. I had no role to play before I received instructions from the producer regarding what he wanted on the guitar front, and I had no role a week later when my tracking was done. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it was an entirely different dynamic.

In both cases, we turned out what I think to be quality product. Both experiences were good experiences, but I definitely felt more invested in CAPE 5.

Of course, if we continue with the producer model in the future, I can always throw my hat into the ring to produce if I want my ideas heard and if I want a hand in picking the material. And, I can try to foster a team dynamic if I produce. So, I guess the answer to bridging the gap between my two experiences would be to try to grab a producer spot in the future.

Just a few ramblings.
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  #56  
Old January 9th, 2008, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
However, there was definitely no feeling of belonging to a team... I'm merely pointing out that the "team" aspect of CAPE was pretty much non-existent this time 'round.
You know, I have been struggling internally about what I thought I missed out on in Cape 6, as a part of me felt incomplete. I think Calvin has expressed it for me.

While I was only a spectator for Cape 5, I lived the experience vicariously through all the post-Cape 5 back-slapping and banter. I think I had developed a certain set of expectations as to what I might take away from Cape 6 THEN the format modifications came along.

I think that the disparity between the subliminal expectations and the process of Cape 6 are at the root of my feeling that something was missing.

While I was proud of my team and the mix, I had the feeling that my parts were not really born of my creativity but of my response to the "programming" of our Producer. As our drummer Johnny has said: "I went into this event in full drum-machine mode."

On many levels I liked the Producer's Cape but I hope a way can be found to take the best of both world's and combine them for even greater benefit. However, that may take more time than we were given to complete this Cape.

It is just damn difficult to do this stuff in a short time frame remotely! I think that is why I marvel at and appreciate all the Cape submissions!
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  #57  
Old January 9th, 2008, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
In both cases, we turned out what I think to be quality product. Both experiences were good experiences, but I definitely felt more invested in CAPE 5.
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  #58  
Old January 9th, 2008, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

I didn't do much this time...but that was the role. I thought it'd be more of a sociable event but just as well as I've been run off my feet.
Would like to sing next cape . Better start practicing so I can make some good demo's to convince someine it's worth doing.

Still a cool experience.
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  #59  
Old January 9th, 2008, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

Even though I was on a dream team (Team Elborgan), and we had zero troubles, and a very competent producer, turned out a fine piece of work, that our producer can be very proud of.
(and hopefully you will get to hear it soon)

I think the "producers" CaPE, is a CaPE for 18,
instead of the previous format of CaPE,
which is a CaPE for 118.

I think alot of us are going, "well at least he got his"
and we are left feeling less than pleasured.

I think "producers" CaPE could be a fine thing
as another level of CaPE

but not as the Only, or the main CaPE.

I don't feel it hit it out of the park as was hoped.
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  #60  
Old January 9th, 2008, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Cape 6 Players' Feedback Thread

I think maybe a little more time to demo and track might be nice. If I could've gone back and forth a couple times with demos it would've been better.

I still definitely feel that having producers is the way to go, at least with CAPE. We can collab the rest of the year.
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Johnny
www.johnnydrums.com


You can't take the sky from me.
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