Poor Old Autotune!!!!

[Tim Halligan]

Originally Posted by Goes211

Too many singers are afraid to be vulnerable today.

Hell yeah!


Record companies seem to be afraid of that vulnerability too, which perhaps says something about their corporate state of mind...

Cheers,
Tim

[otek]

Originally Posted by Immanuel

Yeah, I know, maybe I did eat too many of those pills from the nice guys who send me helpful emails all the time.
I guess, it takes courage to mess around with my ex-es.

I could tell you exactly what she said, but I wouldn't want to cause any statistical blips in the Danish suicide rates.




otek

[6x2]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

There are exceptions but I think we can all agree that we do attempt to have the vocalist sing in tune.

Yes. Emphasis on the word SING.

I love that Lily Allen song and I think the pitchiness sounds refreshing and musical. It's a great vocal track.

But that's just me.

Have a nice day,

6x2

[Immanuel]

Originally Posted by otek

I could tell you exactly what she said, but I wouldn't want to cause any statistical blips in the Danish suicide rates.




otek

I have a feeling it is a good thing we didn't take up this discussion in the "pinpoint placement in the mix" thread ...

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Mixerman

I AM home, baby. You're the guest!

It was only a matter a time before you brought that up. Pure class.

For the record, I didn't disagree with how you choose to run your sessions, I was defending the fact that I do it differently.

The biggest difference between us is that you see your way as the right way.

Whereas, I see your way as the right way for you, and my way as the right way for me.

My intentions were only to inspire further discussion. My mind is wayy open.

You should pay more attention to symbols before choosing them to represent you.

[dikledoux]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I couldn't disagree more.

I hated the world without Autotune. Hated it.

Let me first say this. There is some music where being out of tune is fine. I rarely record that kind of music.

I still spend the time to record 8 or more takes to get the best possible performance from the singer.

After that, (let me tell you fellas) the singer is no longer feeling the song. They are just singing notes to get them in tune. For me. I don't feel like wasting time getting a sterile feeling recording just because it happens to be in tune.

Hold on... Your post early in this thread implies that it's not worth your time to go through the process to get a singer to sing a part correctly. You HATE the process (your choice of word). It's a waste of time in your estimation.

Who's got the "my way or the highway" mentality?

AT is a tool. You use it with a substantial level of success. But your words imply that you don't value performance as much as you value getting a recording over with. I don't actually believe that's your position, but it's easy to see where your position gets misunderstood and invites argument.

dik

[eagan]

Shit.

I'm all out of popcorn.


JLE

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
I couldn't disagree more.

I hated the world without Autotune. Hated it.

Let me first say this. There is some music where being out of tune is fine. I rarely record that kind of music.

I still spend the time to record 8 or more takes to get the best possible performance from the singer.

After that, (let me tell you fellas) the singer is no longer feeling the song. They are just singing notes to get them in tune. For me. I don't feel like wasting time getting a sterile feeling recording just because it happens to be in tune.

Originally Posted by dikledoux

Hold on... Your post early in this thread implies that it's not worth your time to go through the process to get a singer to sing a part correctly. You HATE the process (your choice of word). It's a waste of time in your estimation.

Correctly? Poor choice of words.

I'm saying that once the singer has nailed the vibe, I don't want to waste time re-doing all the notes that are pitchy. That (to me) is a waste of time. AT retains the vibe while putting the note in tune. I rarely find that singers sing one line as well as singing a whole section.

That said, I don't record with AT on. So I'm not keeping takes that are just bad and tuning them.

Originally Posted by dikledoux

Who's got the "my way or the highway" mentality?

Not me. Notice the red letters in the quote. I have only been discussing what works for me.

You guys want to keep punching bad pitch, knock yourselves out.

Originally Posted by dikledoux

AT is a tool. You use it with a substantial level of success. But your words imply that you don't value performance as much as you value getting a recording over with. I don't actually believe that's your position, but it's easy to see where your position gets misunderstood and invites argument.

dik

I don't see that as being easy at all. It's a stretch of paranoia if you ask me. You don't want to do it my way because you fear that it makes you lazy.

I do value performance.

If I had to guess, I would say that there are 56 different variables in a vocal performance. 2 of them are pitch and timing. I focus on the other 54.

I'll give you an analogy, as I often do.

I play basketball a lot. And I'm a really good shooter. But I'm self taught. Just playing in local parks in NYC and such.

I analyzed my shot this way:

You can miss a shot Left, Right, Short or Long.

So I spent months working on shooting perfectly straight. So that the only way I ever miss (99%) is long or short. I've eliminated a whole axis. That is huge. I only have to concentrate on distance now. Throw the ball the exact distance to the basket. Everything else is a given.

Same thing here. Tuning and timing are not an issue. Nail the other 54 variables and I can fix those 2. If I have to.

The singer does not know this going in. And I am listening for pitch and timing along the way. And we do discuss certain notes that are flat or rushed. I just don't obsess if the singer doesn't get it. I used to. And it wasn't fun for me.

Enjoy.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by eagan

Shit.

I'm all out of popcorn.


JLE

Perfect timing.

__________________________________________________ ______

[Mixerman]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

It was only a matter a time before you brought that up. Pure class.

For the record, I didn't disagree with how you choose to run your sessions, I was defending the fact that I do it differently.

No, you distorted and manipulated my words, beyond recognition of their actual intent, in a lame attempt to defend yourself against a post that merely expressed my philosophies and opinions.

The biggest difference between us is that you see your way as the right way.

Show me where I say my way is the "right way." I discussed my philosophies, and I gave my reasons for my philosophies. If you look at my post on autotune, I start it with "Personally." I talk about what I prefer. I discussed what happened to me in sessions that made me come to these conclusions. I see nothing in my post that says "my way" is the "right way." If there is, I'd love for you to point it out to me.

Whereas, I see your way as the right way for you, and my way as the right way for me.

Only thing is, I can't tell what the right way is for you. In one post, you're saying you won't let a song leave the studio unless it's in tune. In the other you're saying that you have records out there with pitchiness.

You should pay more attention to symbols before choosing them to represent you.

There's two sides to a yin yang, my friend.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[Pimp-X]

Thread about autotune.

Time of death: 0945 NZDT.

Tag and bag.

[nobby]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

If I had to guess, I would say that there are 56 different variables in a vocal performance. 2 of them are pitch and timing. I focus on the other 54.

I'm glad to see that you're not as obsessed with pitch and timing as some people think you are.

So...

When will you be starting threads on the other 54?


Sorry, Dr. Pimp, I'm just putting the defibrillator pads to the corpse to watch it twitch

[decobred]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I agree. Which is why I also wear headphones with the singer and I'm constantly riding their vocal along the way. It's also a big reason why I'm mixing along the way with effects even on the 2 buss. The singer is hearing something really close to the final mix.

Do you think that perhaps with all of these vocal rides, and effects, and mix moves while tracking, you may be distracted from just focusing on the performance at hand?

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

What would you do if Aretha Franklin called you up and asked you to record her new single? Just the vocal. Then a quick mix. It's a very simple song. She'll come in for a few hours and bang it out.

She comes in. Sounds pretty good but her pitch is whacky. You could tell it's her and that the vibe was pretty damn good but she wasn't nailing the notes. Not even close. And you knew, despite how good the vocal was, that this vocal was NOT going to cut it. She's on a plane and she's not interested in you telling her to come back. The session went smoothly and she loved working with you. Wants to work with you again. Likes the fact that you kept your mouth shut and kept telling her how great she sounded. And she did. She was just too pitchy.

Do you tune Aretha?

No, knowing it's Aretha Fucking Franklin, you tell her she was pitchy and to do it again because she's an amazing singer and is the definition of vibe.

[Cosmic Pig]

Well I'm on Kenny's side, whatever that may be.

Musicians are the money pinata and the tools are just various sticks to whack them with.

If your wallet doesn't look flayed and beaten at the end of the session I'm not doing my job.

Cos.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by decobred

Do you think that perhaps with all of these vocal rides, and effects, and mix moves while tracking, you may be distracted from just focusing on the performance at hand?

Absolutely not. Everything I'm doing is about the vocal taking place. I'm not riding the kick drum at this point. Normally I would agree with the possibility but not in this case. My mind is very focused while I'm riding the vocal. In fact, (I'm probably crazy) I actually think I'm affecting the performance.

No, knowing it's Aretha Fucking Franklin, you tell her she was pitchy and to do it again because she's an amazing singer and is the definition of vibe.

I described that situation that way on purpose. Most times you build up a relationship with the singer. Days or weeks before they get in the booth.

But there are those times (especially in Pop) where it's a quick meet and greet and into the booth. I'm not going to debate the best way to deal with people, but I have my own way. When I feel that there's an opening for criticism, I make it. But there are moments when an artist is on the cell phone constantly and being loved up by their posse where you don't want to be the one who scratches the needle across the record to kill this great vibe.

And tools can help with that.

Enjoy.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by nobby

When will you be starting threads on the other 54?

As soon as Antares releases:

Auto-Angst
Auto-Rasp
Auto-Emo
Auto-Twang
Auto-Enunciate
Auto-Lisp (for dance music)
Auto-Project (for the shy)

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Pig

Well I'm on Kenny's side, whatever that may be.

Musicians are the money pinata and the tools are just various sticks to whack them with.

If your wallet doesn't look flayed and beaten at the end of the session I'm not doing my job.

Cos.

Well… I wouldn't have quite put it that way.

__________________________________________________ ______

[Cosmic Pig]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Well… I wouldn't have quite put it that way.

No probably not because it doesn't really mean anything. I just type shit and hit reply. It's sarcasm-ish that I don't get either.

I listen to the regular beatings you get on the radio shows, especially the last one interviewing Ron St. Germaine, and it got me to thinking...

Yes the industry has taken a hit because of the tools. The fellers that be around here have put you in the position of industry rep because you freely admit to using the tools, To put an actual mook in the room during a show would probably mean jail time, so you're it Kenny. Which is cool I think because you can take it and it gives Slipperman something to rant about. You're a major cog in the entertainment factor. The straight man as it were.

The trouble here with all these pages and the radio show ranting is it's misdirected. Kenny's not the problem he just does whats expected of him from the industry. He gets forced to the industry position then beaten with rocks and sticks.

If the mook sez tune Ella then Kenny would. He's not in the position to say no.

Now myself, if they don't need tuning I don't. If they do I do. Good players usually don't need much. Really good players don't need a click or aortatune or bd or editing. Just a capture.

Mooks don't know that. In other words, everybody has a good point here, including Kenny.

Cos.

[Charles Dye]

Hitler. Nazis.

[Skwaidu]

Dog Molesters?